Arnor

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/warp ArnorGuide

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“And it came to pass after the days of Eärendur, the seventh king that followed Valandil, that the Men of Númenor, the Dúnedain of the North, became divided into petty realms and lordships, and their foes devoured them one by one. Ever they dwindled with the years, until their glory passed, leaving only green mounds in the grass. At length naught was left of them but a strange people wandering secretly in the wild, and other men knew not their homes nor the purpose of their journeys, and save in Imladris, in the house of Elrond, their ancestry was forgotten…”

This is the official planning and discussion thread for the fallen realm of Arnor. Anything related to Arnor’s terrain or settlements (including those of the Rangers and of the wild men) should be discussed here.

Terrain:

Geology has already been worked out for the first section of Arnor with Soluna - here are our rough conclusions:

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@DarthEnigma will start work on the vegetation in the next few days.

Settlements:

There will be two types of settlements in the first section of Arnor.

The first will be the ruined settlements and fortifications of Arthedain/Arnor. We already have plenty of concepts for these on the Arnor concepts thread, and this style shouldn’t be difficult to grasp or to execute. There are quite a few new blocks coming with the CR merge that will help us with these.

The second is the settlements of the Lossoth in the Icebay of Forochel. I haven’t seen any concepts for these yet, and I’d be interested in seeing a few.

Here is a provisional map I’ve created showing roughly where I think we’d place these settlements:

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I didn’t spend too long on this, so if anyone wants to edit or to add to this map, please feel free to do so and post your version below.

Some topics for discussion:

  • The placement of settlements - see above

  • The ‘look’ of the ruins. I’m fairly sure we already know that we’re going to be ruining these Arnorian settlements fairly heavily, but I still believe we can make them look good whilst doing so.

  • The technological ‘level’ of the Lossoth and how it would reflect on their way of life. I imagine some kind of Sami/Inuit people. but if anyone disagrees do say.

If you have anything else you’d like to bring up, post it below!

Conclusion:

Given the sparse nature of the settlements and barren nature of the terrain, I believe we should get through Arnor at a far quicker pace than Lindon or the Shire. The descriptions of the Rangers and the ruins in the barren wilderness beyond Bree in The Fellowship of the Ring is one of my favourite parts of Tolkien’s works, so I’m really looking forward to seeing what we come up with!

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I think it might be time to recall the ruined fortifications that should be in Barrow-downs :slight_smile: . I made a post about that on the old forum, but I don’t know if someone still have access to them or so … Anyway, they are seen by the Hobbits after they departed from Old Tom’s house.

Barrow-downs are also speculated to be the location of the capital of Cardolan, but there’s no real evidence of that in the lore (it’s also the place where most of the TRPG and similar things set it). That being said, the actual location is not given, and I think it’s still one of the two most likely, due to the importance of the location and the fact that it was the last stand of Cardolan’s Dúnedain (not totally sure of that one, though); the other one being Tharbad, as the only real city mentioned in Cardolan.

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Where are my swamp ruins going to be?
Nah but really, looks fine to me i guess.

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Could you provide that quote? I’ve just looked over that part and can’t find any mention of ruined fortifications.

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There are quite a few marshes around. We could definitely have one ruined castle in an area that used to be drained marshland used for farming.

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I think Bombur’s referring not to an actual thing the fellowship passed but the events retold in Bombadil’s story of the Barrow Downs’ History. There probably won’t be much foundations left, but they’d still be there:
“They heard of the Great Barrows, and the green mounds, and the stone-rings upon the hills and in the hollows among the hills. Sheep were bleating in flocks. Green walls and white walls rose. There were fortresses on the heights. Kings of little kingdoms fought together, and the young Sun shone like fire on the red metal of their new and greedy swords. There was victory and defeat; and towers fell, fortresses were burned, and flames went up into the sky. Gold was piled on the biers of dead kings and queens; and mounds covered them, and the stone doors were shut; and the grass grew over all. Sheep walked for a while biting the grass, but soon the hills were empty again. A shadow came out of dark places far away, and the bones were stirred in the mounds. Barrow-wights walked in the hollow places with a clink of rings on cold fingers, and gold chains in the wind. Stone rings grinned out of the ground like broken teeth in the moonlight.”

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I guess, but “the grass grew over all” makes me think there wouldn’t be much left though.

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A post to gather things from discord about the Lossoth:

Ben:
“The Lossoth house in the snow, and it is said that they can run on the ice with bones on their feet, and have carts without wheels.” Sounds more like inuit than saami

Since there will not be a deep snowlayer around, they will most likely live as nomads roaming the area with tents. There are lots of pictures of different tent designs around:

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So like Whe suggested, we would have enough inspiration and different designs to displayed seperated tribes à la native northamericans. Maybe even take some inspiration from wigwams for more heavily forested areas.

There are also things like these, but im not sure yet how to make them in minecraft or what CR will enable for these:

and sort of like summer igloos:

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Here’s also a quick design i threw together in singleplayer of some jurt designs:
(still room for lots of improvements but just to give an idea where the designs could head)

http://imgur.com/a/TL1gA

additionally whale graveyards,corpses or skeletons were suggested as well as food storages in caves on the peninsula and maybe two or three abandoned campsites/foundations of a camp from a different season.

I hope that covered all ideas, if not post them below and also discuss what has been mentioned or in which of the presented direction the Lossoth homes should really go

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Sleds and ice skates actually sound very Sami / Finnish to me.

About the ruins, yeah, there shouldn’t be much left; I would see something between Annúminas and Fornost Erain.

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The culture of the tribe could be determined by where they are located. Tribes on the coast could be more like the Inuit with small boats that they can hunt whales/seals/walrus with etc. Whereas the inland tribes could be more focused around reindeer herding like the Sami.

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Whale bone gates are a thing too, which we could include after the merge (Cr has a bone block)

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There shouldn’t be any whale stuff or boats in my opinion, because when Arvedui seeked refuge with the Lossoth and when Círdan sent a ship, it was said that the Lossoth had never seen any ship before. Also, they built snowhomes for Arvedui and his men. So I think that they lived more in iglo’s than in tents, at least at the Icebay.

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Kayaks and other small boats aren’t exactly ships though. Igloos can’t be built if there’s no snow and from the discussions we’ve had both here and on discord I think we’ve pretty much concluded that snow will be minimal in Forochel.

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We just have to find a quote and date of when the quote takes place. If its all correct then lore would overrule this decision.

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According to Fornad there isn’t permanent snow in Forochel, being at around where Norway is when Middle Earth is lined up with Europe (though, since it is colder than normal there due to Morgoth’s magic in the past, there are patches of snow in the higher hills). At the time our map is set the snow has subsided into the higher hills and where the Lossoth camps are placed there is no snow. Igloos historically were never permanent dwellings either, rather simply winter shelters, tents being for the summer/autumn seasons (our map is set in September). I think we should have multiple cultures of Lossoth though, with different style dwellings per tribe, matching the resources that would be available, similarly to real life Native American peoples.

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They’ve had a few thousand years to develop their culture and technology, albeit, with very few cross-culture exposure. Which makes me sad, cause I want to pass on the torch of the viking longboats in Middle Earth meme. Maybe have just one really strong settlement with lighter fortifications (large fences and ditches) with a start of more permanent stone/cobble foundation for structures of importance? The one on the peninsula would be a strong contender for this settlement. Don’t know how much it would wreck our idea of the lore though to have just one.

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Time doesn’t necessarily mean technological advancement. Many peoples around the world have lived in the same way for thousands if not tens of thousands of years because they’ve had little contact and no need to change.

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Figured, just wishful thinking on the technological advancement part. Think a larger settlement with a denser population and more set foundations/defenses is possible with the Lossoth?

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I’m not well-versed enough in anthropology to say whether or not a people like that would develop complex enough societal structures that a settlement like that would result.

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We must consult the resident anthropologist.