my plan is on one of my plots it is at 1212,80,-153
i am still building and solidifying my ideas so all feedback no matter what is appreciated
also, i may well shrink the in tact area to reflect the damage but if i planned the whole city it would be far larger than my plan already.
I kinda disagree with that. After all, Nogrod was, together with Belegost, the second most proeminent Dwarf kingdom after Khazad-dûm as well as the original settlement of one of the seven Dwarf houses, so I think it should have been something Moria-scaled (a bit smaller, but still). Of course, as it have been said, the Blue Mountains suffered tremendous changes and destructions at the end of the First Age, so it would be understandable if there was rubbles, thus blocking the hallways quite early in the exploration, because I don’t think a lot of people is willing to spend a humongous amount of time on such a small thing in the Third Age lore that early in the whole AC project; however, in this case, it should be quite noticeable that the point where the corridors end is still far from the core of the kingdom (maybe that’s what Fornad meant by saying “show that it was once mighty”, but as I’ not sure, I prefer to write this post ^^ ).
Now that this is said, I also think that totally blocking access to the past glory of the Blue Mountains cities would really be a sad waste, and that’s why I propose this:
- Are the ruins of Belegost planned as well, or are they considered totally sunken in the project?
- If yes, just proceed to make Nogrod as I explained, and do the same with Belegost when its turn comes, but then add, not connected with the ruins accessible from the main entrance of Belegost but instead accessible from something like a crack lost in the Ered Luin peaks, itself opening on some ruined aeration/light duct (I see this as a long path of cracks and thin bowels, maybe a bit labyrinthic, diving deep under the mountains before reaching the duct), one single huge and glorious hall, with very small ruining (all normal access to this hall being collapsed, though).
Make this hall something really iconic. I was thinking of the tomb of Azaghâl, him being, I think, the most iconic dwarf of the First Age. Or maybe (as a better justification for a huge hall), the mausoleum of the Broadbeam kings, with more proeminent tombs for the Father of the house and for Azaghâl. - If Belegost isn’t planned, do it for Nogrod. But then, maybe make it a great forge, which is more iconic for Telchar (which is for me at least, the second most iconic First Age Dwarf).
That way, the project would maintain a realistic very high amount of ruining for Nogrod (and Belegost?), and thus not take that long to complete while still giving access to something that would be like the hidden jewel of the Blue Mountains, a single but magnificient remnant of the past glory of the Dwarfs that once lived there.
I suggested the separate entrance for three reasons: it would emphasise the high amount of damage suffered by the city (some parts are cut off from the others) as well as the hidden feeling of the place (the more complicated the maze is, the better this will work), and also because acessing to such a place from other remnants of the city through only small bowels and cracks wouldn’t be realistic. There should be at least some other halls and corridors on the way (especially when a hall like the ones I proposed probably wouldn’t be that close to the entrance), and that would take time, and get the city/kindom out of the “small/middle scale project” desired by Guan and Fornad.
@Glov: I only posted one picture in the Dwarven inspiration thread (at least on the new forum, I don’t remember about the old one), but thanks ^^ .
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Totally agree with you on that post in terms of showing the grandeur with some huge halls, whatever ends up being done needs to have striking core features. i understand that i didnt capture this in my concepts at the start where i was trying to figure out the smaller areas however i am currently building a far larger hall in this style.
as for some areas like a great hall being accessed by cracks instead of tunnels i think its a great idea and i willl imlement it if i can. i will probably open up the treasury / forges in this way as they both just scream dwarven and the contents would be likely more intact.
thanks for the advice 
although i must say that its unlikely more than one hall of that scale would not still be intact after the war of wrath and 6000 years if even 1. i love the huge hall idea but im just not sure what would be left. i will consult guan and fornad on this issue.
About the War of Wrath and the submersion of Beleriand, I think one hall not being ruined (or almost not) is not that unlikely if pretty much all the other parts of the city are collapsed. Of course, we would be very lucky that it’s THIS precise hall would be the one accessible, but I think that, as it’s neither impossible, the idea of showing the past grandeur of the place can justify it, as long as it stays only one hall.
On the other hand, I don’t think the 6000 years are that much of a problem given the deep underground nature of the place: after the initial destruction subsequent to WoW, there isn’t much elemental activity to degrade it, especially when it’s very solid dwarven rock.
Actually, overall, I think dwarven ruins in general should be in a much better state than the surface buildings of Men and Elves. Orcs, Trolls, Balrogs and Dragons can accelerate the things, though, buteven then that shouldn’t result in the same amount of destruction that suffered Annúminas, etc. Nogrod and Belegost are a very special case due to the events that ended the First Age.
Speaking of that, I think it would be a nice idea to place some other minor ruined First Age dwarven settlements in the Blue Mountains aside of the Second/Third Age ones (especially on the western side). Corridors collapsed immediately after the main gate would be sufficient, though; not much work to do 
. Roads themselves aren’t needed, as they had enough time to be fully reclaimed by nature .
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If you need some more concepts, i have a book with concept art where i based the staircase on.
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The ‘cracks’ idea is great, but I have to check with Soluna first to make sure it’s possible.
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Yeah you just added the geological side of things to this. 
War of Wrath isn’t entirely naturo-geological, though. Some powerful powers (yeah, that sounds strange ) at work, here 
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what i might do is colapse one or two pillars in the hall and have the stone directly above it collapse in a big spill of broken rock fragments, it would show the damage but the grandeur would still be visible in the rest of the hall.
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Going to have to rain on everyone’s parade here.
There are several key things we know about both Nogrod and Belegost:
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They were ruined badly enough that a race who were incredibly attached to their ancestral homes and able to carve gigantic halls and underground cities from solid rock decided it would be best to abandon them.
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They were mostly built in schist (according to our interpretation). Schist tends to be fairly unstable.
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They were destroyed by an event - natural or not - that sunk a good chunk of a continent. That amount of destruction is on the level of Yellowstone or Chicxulub.
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Their remains haven’t been touched for 6000 years. Quote Soluna: “Stuff in mountains, that is built to be supported, and not maintained, will be gone relatively quickly. Nature tends to take back stuff much faster than you think.”
Here is an ideal example of underground architecture that has survived:
It was in a dry climate, didn’t suffer any major geological events, was in use up until the 20th century, and still had to be excavated.
Soluna’s summary:
In the interest of a ‘call-back’ to the First Age, I’m happy to keep the heavily ruined gate and corridor we have currently. However, we shoot for realism as much as we can, and in this case the facts are not in our favour. As a result, @blocks119, I will approve this application as long as all you do is remove the corridor leading off from the central hall which currently exists. The project should take less than a day to complete.
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shame
i agree that the amount of damage too the city would make it almost unrecognisable and i guess i cant disagree however just wondering, earlier on you said nogrod was a big step up from minthaun, why is removing a corridor such a big step up?
I said that before I’d spoken with Soluna about the situation, when I thought it was going to be a big project.
ok, well i guess ill just do that then …
i guess ill wait till something else comes up to do .
thanks anyway and thanks for explaining why .
-blocks
Thorins Halls are intact.
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yes but that would be an even bigger step up for me than to nogrod how i planned it, ill think about it and come up with some new concepts.
I’ll be happy to take up the work on Nogrod if my computer can withstand being online for a bit. I had already started it, I’ll just fill in that corridor and add a few details. I appreciate blocks’ enthusiasm though. Blocks, if you’d like to work with me on some Moria concepts some time–I’m sure we’ll have good fun.
i just filled in the corridor but feel free to add details.
also ill take you up on the moria concepts some time.
Sad, but I suppose that it must ten be discarded 
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Could you ask him how does that work for natural caves, though? There’s not a river in every part of every one of them …
Natural caves tend to be limestone.
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