Nogrod

Project Archive
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Thread title: Project Application: [Nogrod]

Player name(s): [In-game name] [Blocks119]

Player rank: [Builder]

Location name: [Nogrod]

Lore: [Nogrod was a Dwarven settlement in the blue mountains that was established in the ‘Years of the trees’ when the western Fathers of the Dwarves awoke from beneath Mount Dolmed. The city traded throughout Beleriand and the dwarves from the city were hired as renound craftsmen and jewelers.
The settlement was constructed guarding one of the few passes in the mountain chain where the dwarf road of beleriand crossed from the mountains into eriador close to where the dwarves awoke at Mount Dolmed.
At first the dwarves of Nogrod were friendly towards the elves although after some of the craftsmen from the city killed Thingol in his treasury before fleeing the dwarves and elves of the areas both changed their attitudes. After fleeing all but two of the treachurous dwarves were killed by elves that hunted them down. when the two survivors reached the city of Nogrod they told the dwarves in the city that Thingol refused to pay the craftsmen before killing them.
Following this the dwarves of Nogrod unaided by those of Belegost massed and many of them set out to sack Menegroth however they were killed by Beren Erchamion and his army of Green-elves and Ents at the Battle of Sarn Athrad . Following this Nogrod was finally destroyed by the valar in the war of wrath between morgoth and the valar. This justifies a huge amount of damage since between them morgoth and the Valar annhialated huge areas of middle earth that now lie underwater to the north west. however I want there to be something to explore and so will not annhialate evrything in the city I will have large collapses and damage in every room to a large extent but not total destruction .

* refferences:

* he Silmarillion, Quenta Silmarillion, Ch 10, Of the Sindar

* Now the traffic of the Dwarves down from the Blue Mountains followed two roads across East Beleriand, and the northern way, going towards the Fords of Aros, passed nigh to Nan Elmoth; and there Eöl would meet the Naugrim and hold converse with them. And as their friendship grew he would at times go and dwell as guest in the deep mansions of Nogrod or Belegost There he learned much of metalwork, and came to great skill therein.

* The Silmarillion, Quenta Silmarillion, Ch 16, Of Maeglin

* It came to pass that at the midsummer the Dwarves, as was their custom, bade Eöl to a feast in Nogrod…

* The Silmarillion, Quenta Silmarillion, Ch 16, Of Maeglin

* Belegost and Nogrod were upon the east side of Eredlindon and nigh to the lands of the Eldar. Yet few of the Elves, save [Maeglin] of Gondolin, went ever thither; and the Dwarves trafficked into Beleriand, and made a great road that passed under the shoulders of Mount Dolmed and followed thence the course of Ascar, crossing Gelion at Sarn-athrad.

* The War of the Jewels, HoME Vol 11, Part 2, Ch 13, Concerning the Dwarves

* [The] Naugrim learned many secrets of craft [from the Eldar] in those days, so that the smiths and masons of Nogrod and Belegost became renowned among their kin, and when the Dwarves began again to journey into Beleriand all the traffic of the dwarf-mines passed first through the hands of Caranthir, and thus great riches came to him.

* The Silmarillion, Quenta Silmarillion, Ch 13, Of the Return of the Noldor

* But Maedhros had the help of the Naugrim, both in armed force and in great store of weapons; and the smithies of Nogrod and Belegost were busy in those days.

* The Silmarillion, Quenta Silmarillion, Ch 20, Of The Fifth Battle: Nirnaeth Arnoediad

* [The] Nauglamír, the Necklace of the Dwarves, […] was made for Finrod Felagund long years before by the craftsmen of Nogrod and Belegost, most famed of all their works in the Elder Days.

* The Silmarillion, Quenta Silmarillion, Ch 22, Of the Ruin of Doriath

* Celeborn had no liking for Dwarves of any race (as he showed to Gimli in Lothlórien), and never forgave them for their part in the destruction of Doriath; but it was only the host of Nogrod that took part in that assault, and it was destroyed in the battle of Sam Athrad
* ]

I will leave the lower areas most in tact as they will lay underwater. This would slow the decomposition of wood to a stop leaving log supports intact like under Venice where the buildings are on wooden piles that have been there since the city began. As well as this the water would take a lot of the pressure of the rock above because it is so hard to compress. I feel this would be a good way for people to be able to still explore something other that solid rubble

Overhead plan: here

Reference Imagery: [http://imgur.com/a/odhKB]

Concept(s): [http://imgur.com/a/0PWVX]

I am still building concepts and developing my plan so i will implement all updates in this post.

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I’d recommend filling out the application before posting, just a tip, :slight_smile:

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i didnt realise that it instantly opened it, im currently typing it up

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Check out Bruno’s dwarven concept on the plots, I really liked the vibe that gave off.

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What plot is it on? I’m not sure where it is.

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I’m not at home and I’m not sure how the coordinates work, but dynmap tells me it’s 7 plots south of spawn, and one westwards

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The staircase bit you mean? Yeah that was rather nice.

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Where exactly is your plan located?

Also, I think I’d feel more comfortable if you led this with a more experienced builder - no offense to you, but Nogrod is quite the step up from Minthaun and you’ll definitely need help.

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Here’re all the references of Nogrod in Tolkien’s works: http://www.henneth-annun.net/places_view.cfm?PLID=373

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http://imgur.com/a/gExgS
I’d also check through the Dwarven Concepts thread.
Specifically @Bombur8 has posted a lot of good inspiration IIRC.

It would be really nice to see something a bit different for Nogrod than Thorin’s Halls and the current Mines. Something that feels appropriately ancient. Take some inspiration from the main gate as well. It’s a variant of Mistnet’s Erebor gate. You can find that at the EredLuinFB warp I believe. It has a very old, carved feel to it.

Anyways, good luck.

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Thing is, there really shouldn’t be much left in Nogrod that resembles a dwarven kingdom. The Ered Luin got so beated up in the War of Wrath that i really don’t see Nogrod being a large project at all. A bunch of collapsed caverns (old corridors) and some stuf that shows that a hall used to be there, like a part of a pillar or wall remnant and stuff like that.

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Agreed. It doesn’t have to be a large project, but what’s left of it should show that it was once mighty.

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yep totally agree and if anyone else puts forward a better application (and they probably will) then they should do it.

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thanks, this is really helpful

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my plan is on one of my plots it is at 1212,80,-153

i am still building and solidifying my ideas so all feedback no matter what is appreciated

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also, i may well shrink the in tact area to reflect the damage but if i planned the whole city it would be far larger than my plan already.

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I kinda disagree with that. After all, Nogrod was, together with Belegost, the second most proeminent Dwarf kingdom after Khazad-dûm as well as the original settlement of one of the seven Dwarf houses, so I think it should have been something Moria-scaled (a bit smaller, but still). Of course, as it have been said, the Blue Mountains suffered tremendous changes and destructions at the end of the First Age, so it would be understandable if there was rubbles, thus blocking the hallways quite early in the exploration, because I don’t think a lot of people is willing to spend a humongous amount of time on such a small thing in the Third Age lore that early in the whole AC project; however, in this case, it should be quite noticeable that the point where the corridors end is still far from the core of the kingdom (maybe that’s what Fornad meant by saying “show that it was once mighty”, but as I’ not sure, I prefer to write this post ^^ ).

Now that this is said, I also think that totally blocking access to the past glory of the Blue Mountains cities would really be a sad waste, and that’s why I propose this:

  1. Are the ruins of Belegost planned as well, or are they considered totally sunken in the project?
  2. If yes, just proceed to make Nogrod as I explained, and do the same with Belegost when its turn comes, but then add, not connected with the ruins accessible from the main entrance of Belegost but instead accessible from something like a crack lost in the Ered Luin peaks, itself opening on some ruined aeration/light duct (I see this as a long path of cracks and thin bowels, maybe a bit labyrinthic, diving deep under the mountains before reaching the duct), one single huge and glorious hall, with very small ruining (all normal access to this hall being collapsed, though).
    Make this hall something really iconic. I was thinking of the tomb of Azaghâl, him being, I think, the most iconic dwarf of the First Age. Or maybe (as a better justification for a huge hall), the mausoleum of the Broadbeam kings, with more proeminent tombs for the Father of the house and for Azaghâl.
  3. If Belegost isn’t planned, do it for Nogrod. But then, maybe make it a great forge, which is more iconic for Telchar (which is for me at least, the second most iconic First Age Dwarf).

That way, the project would maintain a realistic very high amount of ruining for Nogrod (and Belegost?), and thus not take that long to complete while still giving access to something that would be like the hidden jewel of the Blue Mountains, a single but magnificient remnant of the past glory of the Dwarfs that once lived there.

I suggested the separate entrance for three reasons: it would emphasise the high amount of damage suffered by the city (some parts are cut off from the others) as well as the hidden feeling of the place (the more complicated the maze is, the better this will work), and also because acessing to such a place from other remnants of the city through only small bowels and cracks wouldn’t be realistic. There should be at least some other halls and corridors on the way (especially when a hall like the ones I proposed probably wouldn’t be that close to the entrance), and that would take time, and get the city/kindom out of the “small/middle scale project” desired by Guan and Fornad.

@Glov: I only posted one picture in the Dwarven inspiration thread (at least on the new forum, I don’t remember about the old one), but thanks ^^ .

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Totally agree with you on that post in terms of showing the grandeur with some huge halls, whatever ends up being done needs to have striking core features. i understand that i didnt capture this in my concepts at the start where i was trying to figure out the smaller areas however i am currently building a far larger hall in this style.

as for some areas like a great hall being accessed by cracks instead of tunnels i think its a great idea and i willl imlement it if i can. i will probably open up the treasury / forges in this way as they both just scream dwarven and the contents would be likely more intact.

thanks for the advice :smiley:

although i must say that its unlikely more than one hall of that scale would not still be intact after the war of wrath and 6000 years if even 1. i love the huge hall idea but im just not sure what would be left. i will consult guan and fornad on this issue.

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About the War of Wrath and the submersion of Beleriand, I think one hall not being ruined (or almost not) is not that unlikely if pretty much all the other parts of the city are collapsed. Of course, we would be very lucky that it’s THIS precise hall would be the one accessible, but I think that, as it’s neither impossible, the idea of showing the past grandeur of the place can justify it, as long as it stays only one hall.

On the other hand, I don’t think the 6000 years are that much of a problem given the deep underground nature of the place: after the initial destruction subsequent to WoW, there isn’t much elemental activity to degrade it, especially when it’s very solid dwarven rock.

Actually, overall, I think dwarven ruins in general should be in a much better state than the surface buildings of Men and Elves. Orcs, Trolls, Balrogs and Dragons can accelerate the things, though, buteven then that shouldn’t result in the same amount of destruction that suffered Annúminas, etc. Nogrod and Belegost are a very special case due to the events that ended the First Age.
Speaking of that, I think it would be a nice idea to place some other minor ruined First Age dwarven settlements in the Blue Mountains aside of the Second/Third Age ones (especially on the western side). Corridors collapsed immediately after the main gate would be sufficient, though; not much work to do :slight_smile: . Roads themselves aren’t needed, as they had enough time to be fully reclaimed by nature :slight_smile: .

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If you need some more concepts, i have a book with concept art where i based the staircase on.

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