Westfold


#21

I think the repairs should mainly be on the deeping wall, and maybe the outer wall of the Hornburg? Maintenance here and there across the entire fortress would be neat. Interior of the main hall should be fine i think, tho maybe have one room be completely done, and another room where they are still busy painting the walls?


#22

I wasn’t saying we should have the Hornburg uninhabitable. Erkenbrand would be there at this time I’m just saying Erkenbrand must have had a court somewhere before he moved to the Hornburg and started repairing it close to the War of the Ring, and the Burg to the east seems like the ideal place, which at this time he or Theoden could have given it to a vassal (similarly to how Aldburg was the OG Capital of Rohan before it was relocated to Edoras)


#23

Good article I found on dogs in the middle ages, would be neat to add some guard dogs to pretty much all villages and a few homesteads (probably only one if it’s a homestead imo), and ofcourse in any places with sheep/cattle. Kennels are easy to build and are a good filler in any empty spaces.


#24

Just putting this in here for a general reference/idea for construction sites in the area. Would be nice to have a few around and make the project more living rather than static.


#25

Here is what I have in mind for the styles of the Westfold, better late than never. Red circles are settlements that should show some transition.


#26

As the landscape of Rohan tends not to have that many stand out features as its largely rolling hills and plains, I think its all the more important to add detail where possible. Here are just a few ideas I came up with off the top of my head, feel free to add to this list and/or tell me if something doesn’t make sense for lore/realism reasons.

  • Rivers & Streams - I think adding a good deal of vegetation and small trees around these is a great opportunity to liven up the environment. Ytsen’s idea of improving the server’s minor rivers is most applicable, in my view, to Rohan as this is where they can really stand out and aren’t ‘hidden’ in the surrounding terrain.

  • Paths - One simple way I could see of introducing a subtle bit of detail into these is making the paths which are highly used trade routes wider and more muddy than the small alleys between fields which only farmers would use.

  • Lines of Trees - Aesthetically, I think lines of trees are very effective in breaking up a landscape of field on field and dry stone wall on dry stone wall. They also have a practical use of acting as windbreaks, stopping the wind whipping off all the topsoil.

  • The Dry Stone Walls - Here is a decent article which I think has some good inspiration for what can be done in terms of gates, differing heights and styles, uses, etc.


#27

Agreed with all of those points other than the ‘lines of trees’ one. I want the fields and farms of Rohan to remain open and mostly treeless, unless it’s right next to the mountains. Otherwise it’ll just feel like the Shire at a bigger scale.


#28

Yeah I completely agree that it shouldn’t turn into the shire. I don’t think I expressed myself very accurately, what I imagined was something more along these lines.

Examples

dry-stone-walls-fields-yorkshire-260nw-782369647

This sort of thing would definitely have to be unique to the Westfold and maybe Eastfold, ie close to the mountains. Even those too pics might be a little overkill.


#29

I’m thinking of applying for Grimslade. The settlement is very close to the Fords of the Isen, so i was thinking of turning it into more of a Motte and Bailey.

Some inspiration here from Glov:

It would be like that basically but a lot smaller. It would have some layered defences, and a keep with the village inside of the outer bailey.

What do you think about this idea, @Benzathoth ?


#30

Think a motte and bailey is something you would find in the arable lands in the lowlands/plains. And I think Grimslade is too isolated to be a motte and bailey.

And the name indicates that the village is located in a forest glade or on a slope of a hillside.


#31

The reasoning for it being welll-defended is that it’s the closest village to the Fords and therefore most suspectible to attack. Doesn’t necessarily have to be a motte and bailey but some defenses are needed.


#32

Yeah i really do want to include some good defences for Grimslade. Maybe not a motte and bailey then, but still a defensive village.


#33

That I agree on.


#34

It could just be similar to Brethil from the Silmarillion, as that sort of village or great hall is pretty common in basically all northern-style villages described by Tolkien aside from Dale (we don’t know) or Laketown (Bree has a hedge, Beorn’s house has a hedge, Brethil has a palisade, Rhosgobel’s etymology (Brown Hay, Hay is basically an old word for fence or hedge)) His reasoning for it can be seen in an obscure essay he wrote on etymology after the Lord of the RIngs’ publication, regarding the Noldor chiefly, retrieved by ArcusCalion:

These men he refers to are the tribes that met the Noldor in the first age, most notably the House of Hador, who are most likely the ancestors for the Northmen post-War of Wrath (from which the Rohirrim are descended). We know very little about Grimslade aside from it being situated on a slope near woods based on its name; it could very well be similar to Brethil or Beorn’s: a lone homestead/cluster of buildings surrounded by a fence or hedge for a family/line of people to live in.


#35

I’ve seen a lot of these houses being built in Westfold and was wondering if they are inspired by anything in particular or if they’re historically accurate.

There’s nothing really on the inspiration thread that resembles them and in places I feel like they’re a bit overused especially if they’re not actually realistic. @Benzathoth, would be good to hear your opinion or for you to show some pictures of similar styles.


#36

Can you pinpoint what exactly you dislike? The material choice, mud, or the whole timber-framing thing? I guess I’m sort of the one who brought up the whole style, I saw the mud tudor in Ben’s earlier concepts and still in the material list in the rohanguide and in Ben’s outline, it was okay for the deeping valley to have some tudor. I chose the mud tudor in particular, because I felt it looked even simpler/older than the standard white tudor which has a more medieval feel to them in my eyes, look at Bree.
If it’s about the timber-framing, this style was created when the mud tudor did not connect yet and I think, the timber-framing gives a lot more opportunities to make each house a little more unique than just having Bree-styled vertical posts, like a lot of the pictures below show. Remember those were also incorporated in some houses in one form or the other. There is also a bit of variation with the staves block as main housing material around, and since the rohan style in that area was never meant to use the log walls because it should feel different to the Beorning styles, there is really little other materials/block I can see fit.
In regards to the colour, I think, with the right materials and ratio, this colour could happen. If you say the geography is not right for it, I’m sorta open to suggestions. I’m saying “sorta” at this point, since most of these projects have their threads closed for over a week now, so the apps are closer to 2-3 weeks old already.

Examples of the colour

http://blog.martinbelan.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/Colonial_Jamestown_20131022_0003.jpg
I know this is sort of the wrong country and maybe time, but the material composition could be right in the area too.

https://i.redditmedia.com/dGABQlGZBtongX6JPPBYszPB1xU3FWZrUMY7-_vxovk.jpg?w=1024&s=ebe97b3e2d3dda23560f1359714c34ca

http://farm5.staticflickr.com/4116/4788962653_abcbc7dd78.jpg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4d/Panorama_Wohnstallhaus.jpg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c3/Geismar_Mittelalterdorf.jpg


#37

I think its ok in places but when you use it on every building and covering the entire facade of a house, the amount of boxes/squares gets overpowering and looks weird. As I said, if was actually based off reality then it’d be fine, but as of yet, no one has provided any historical recreation photos or artworks that resemble them. Your links look great but they are much simpler than the in-game houses you’ve built. They could easily be achieved with the thin beams and stucco/plaster blocks. If we altered the style to something like them, then not only would it look better (imo at least), but it would also be more realistic. Keep some of the tudor, maybe on the gables of houses but try to avoid covering every single wall of every house with it.


#38

We do not have a frameless texture of the mud-tudor though. And when we change these houses to white plaster, the area where that is used will become quite big and kinda repetitive in my eyes.

This is what Ben has in mind regarding different style regions in the Westfold

WFH9 with 1.12 connected tudor


Is this better in your eyes?


#39

there is a brown plaster/stucco block (im not saying to make them white) and you can incorporate wood into them as well. and yes that styles plan is fine but I am querying the use of the brown tudor block which is being used in every single zone atm. with connected textures looks a bit better but doesn’t change the fact that there’s no references for anything similar (that we’ve found yet).


#40
Summary

http://www.wikingowie.bplaced.net/2011/05T/11d.jpg

https://img00.deviantart.net/0d62/i/2012/050/1/1/torgelov_13_08_2011_gallery_01t_photo_06_by_wikingowie-d4q8rz9.jpg

https://farm4.static.flickr.com/3094/13039484183_836c6b4b2c_b.jpg
all Torgelow, Germany

http://www.coppiceagroforestry.com/uploads/6/0/3/2/6032309/2561512.jpg?407
somewhere in Bulgaria

http://theshelterblog.com/lloydsblog/IMG_0392-lo-res.jpg

http://theshelterblog.com/lloydsblog/IMG_0347-lo-res.jpg
both Frankfurt, Germany

Honestly, I would appreciate if you make some concepts then, to show some variety we can use. And do you plan to reopen like 4 already done and approved homesteads now?

Also can’t say I’m a fan of either of the blocks you mentioned, the I left the worn brown plaster out of this, because of two reasons, it is used in the WFV6 area and it has bricks in it. And even if one texture was fitting, we would have the same problem of one texture for all of them.

Summary