Gondor Research Thread, Stage 1: Research from Real Life
Somewhat early for this, but this would be the first stage of the planning process per region and we might as well start it now and compile it over time. Stage 2, categorizing based on lore and deciding on architectural periods for the server, would not occur until after we have collectively compiled a significant amount of research.
*** simply pictures from games or something would be best to go in the inspiration thread, unless it is vital for you to show what you mean.
Cultures encouraged to source from are:
-Ancient Rome
-Ancient Egypt
-Byzantium
-Babylon
-Crete
-Etruscans
-Ancient Greek city-states (Mycenae, etc.)
Later periods like renaissance or baroque architecture is discouraged unless there is very good reason to add it in. Likewise, Medieval Europe is also discouraged as a direct inspiration for Gondor.
Each ‘official’ post/compilation should be labeled as per this format: Culture(s): (Type of culture your research centres around) Source Type: (old maps/layouts, a book found, etc.) What’s in it?: What the source tells us, certain aspects of the culture/architecture that could be better applied to Gondor Ingame Concepts: Any ingame concepts based on architecture or layouts in the sources that better allow us to transfer the ideas to Gondor at a later point are appreciated. This section is not required, and honestly if need be can be posted in the inspiration thread, but I’ll put it here anyway in case one wants to post something. Additional materials/notes: Further links, if you compiled a google doc with multiple sources you’d put it here, etc.
EDIT: this google doc will collect and reorganize all of the posts of the thread, in order to make it easier to find stuff in the future.
Culture: Ancient Rome Source Type: still existing real world layouts What’s in it: how the Romans organized the countryside and divided the land into regular plots of land. This system is called Centuriation and its traces can still be found in some rural areas in Italy. Ingame Concepts: not necessary. Additional materials: I have some good links explaining the whole process (which is quite complex), but they are useless to you since they are in italian, so you’ll have to settle for wikipedia, which seems to be giving more than enough infos btw.
I’ve always known about this system since there’s a quite large area close to my hometown where the traces of this still exist today and the roads now follow the same paths running thru the dividing lines of the fields.
When planning the countryside in Gondor we can apply a similar approach, maybe with some more unorganized parts caused by the decaying Byzantine-like period the kingdom is facing.
I also think that we can leave some traces of it even in the eastfold of Rohan. Being the closest region to Anorien, it would be cool to have the fileds still organized slowly fade into the messier ones of rohan, to show off his Gondorian past.
Seeing Soap working on his Gondor ruins south of Lorien gave me an idea or rather made me realize a recurring pattern. Both Helm’s Deep and Minas Tirith appear to be circular in Tolkien’s description and mind. Maybe we can have that as a unifying theme throughout Gondor’s towns or at least fortifications in contrast to the often rather rectangular roman stuff. Would love to see any counter arguments/examples or thoughts on this.
It’s a nice idea to unify them in terms of style, but I think any fortifications should be primarily at the mercy of the terrain as much as possible, which accounts for why Helm’s Deep and Minas Tirith are circular, they’re both on pretty conical spurs just off major mountains. While I realise it’s obvious to build at maximum elevation, that’s fine for your central tower or keep, but any fortifications around that aren’t neccessarily going to be circular.
If we’re grounding everything in reality as much as possible, there are no circular castles or towns. Towers along the walls, yes, they can be circular, because they’re strong against undermining and siege weaponry, but when they’re building a fortification, they’re always going to choose what’s effective over looking nice and circular. Sure, star forts marry both defensibility and symmetry, but they’re always built on utterly flat plains.
I’d argue we’re only building Helm’s Deep and Minas Tirith circular because as you say, Tolkien described them that way, and because their particular terrain lends itself to a circular design. And while the majority of lone beacon towers and the like perhaps would be circular, towns and cities, and major fortresses would likely be more at the mercy of their specific terrain. And the random fuckwits who just build streets whichever way they want and then expect the lord to make a wall snaking around the weird-ass shaped town.
Thing is Sunwing, most of Gondor’s early cities or major forts would have been heavily planned. In Greek and Roman colonies, the grid format was often used, and then people deviated from that after the fact; in fact, the walls were built first, then the city inside of it with extra space pre-planned for expansion/growth. I agree that not every fortification has to be round, but I think it should be a unifying theme among most of the older/middle period Gondorian fortifications pre-decline (of which your project is part of). Nice catch ahorn, never noticed it!
