Casthenid

Player name : Yannig00, HermannKm (Guigui)

Player rank : Builder+

Private or Public : Private for now but we might open it later if needed.

Name : Casthenid (strong headland/cape)

Lore : Arnorian town built around an old Numenorean fort later transformed into a noble mansion (GFFort2)

The town was founded around 1 and 411 of the Third Age near an old numenorean fort guarding the Greyflood. The elevated position near the river and the fort made the area perfect for a settlement and the village quickly grew wealthy. Eventually, the fort that was transformed as a fortified mansion was not enough anymore for the local lord and a palace was built next to it.

Like the Gondorian towns during the next millennium, Minas Einior evolved into a more grid-like town and got a Cardo Maximus and a Decumanus. The town kept growing and old buildings like the theatre and bathhouses were embellished. The palace got bigger as well.

As time went by, the expansions were less planned, more random and the buildings of that time were mediocre. The war against Angmar pushed most of the inhabitants to flee the town. The Great Plague of 1636 decimated the last persons who lived there.

Many centuries went by and no soul came back. In 2912 the great flood of the Long Winter completely erased the lower town and harbour.

According to the Greyflood/Gwathlo Fort and Town Ruins thread by DarthEnigma on the forum :

  • The town was founded at the beginning of the Third-Age And was completely abandoned during the Great Plague of 1636.

  • The lower town got wiped out during the flood of the Long Winter of 2912.

According to the Gondor Architectural Epochs doc and if we establish a parallel between the two kingdoms :

  • The town would have been founded during the Establishment Period (1-411 TA) and would have been occupied until the Turbulent Period (The Second Evil) 1448-1850 TA

  • The town would have gone through four architectural epochs : Early Gondor (1-411 TA), Expansionist Gondor (411-1240 TA), The Gondorian Zenith (1241-1433 TA), The Gondorian Strife (1433-1850 TA).

The architectural epochs that interest us :

Taken from the Gdoc almost verbatim.

  • 1-411 TA : Cont., architecture begins to diverge from Númenor as culture settles into its role as an expansionist empire. Large Egyptian, Babylonian, and Cyclopean architecture with Roman/Greek Elements, perhaps even more so than before. Large brick surfaces, perhaps Domes more common in this period as well. Cities grew around their palaces similar to how in Mesopotamia cities grew around temple complexes.

  • 411-1240 TA : Architectural development/beautification period. Palaces were expanded and grew in power in this period; older city centres were embellished and new cities were expanded with grid format. Architecture skill was most likely still top notch due to Minas Tirith probably gaining its black wall around this time from excess material while carving Orthanc several hundred years prior. The Egyptian style develops into something more Cretan, Greek/Roman elements creeping in with the assimilation of new peoples into the empire. Etruscan architecture enters the fold with the assimilation of Andrast and Blackroot

  • 1240-1433 TA : Cities began expanding at a more frantic rate, less city planning. No great architectural projects at this time in the heartland, though perhaps monuments etc. were set up in conquered lands. This period would further debase architecture from its original splendour; the old methods still were recorded probably, but shelved away due to war on the rise. Buildings from this time period were probably crappy and either remodeled later, or ruined/unimportant for inhabited Gondor.

  • 1433-1850 TA : Political strife and infighting on the part of multiple periods in Gondor’s history; buildings if added on would have been more frantic with architecture less pristine, mostly crammed in and around cities in order to expand space; parts of cities raided/razed, which could account for the loss of ancient Númenorean methods in order to build (a la Orthanc, Minas Tirith, etc. Buildings added would have been mediocre at best, straying from the planned cities of earlier periods. The loss of architectural tech would have also firmly trapped the Gondorians (and Arnorians too probably) within their new weird Greek/Roman creole mish-mash, with very little influence left of the previous Egyptian periods.

Overhead plan :

(note that the center of the town will be more north than the current warp)

Summary

Some places on the slopes will be flatter than what the planning shows.

Reference :

-Founded by the Arnorians and later occupied by the kingdom of Cardolan until the Great Plague.

-See Greyflood/Gwathló Fort and Town Ruins thread.

-Gondor Architectural Epochs have been heavily inspired and adapted to Arnor for this project.

-Lond Daer Enedh analysis / planning was also used as inspiration.

4 Likes

Really nice.

My only thought is that the terrain is quite steep in a few places. I know you’re going to flatten it out a bit but it will still be a factor.

I think the best way of dealing with this, on a house by house basis, is only showing the walls that are lower down the slope. The upper slope would have been covered over by this point with dirt etc, like this:

image

I’d like to see a concept of this before the project is approved.

4 Likes

I really like the layout as well. Maybe the retaining walls feel a bit too monumental in some places, but I guess it won’t be too noticeable since it’s all ruined.
The only thing I think you could rework is the theater, which could be more integrated with the natural terrain. Imo you should find the best spot for it terrain-wise and locate it accordingly, even if it breaks up with the grid layout or if it is slightly outside the city centre.

3 Likes

@Fornad Sure, it’s a good idea, I will do a concept this week end.

@MrBanana Yeah I know the walls look too big in some places witch is why I ruined a corner of the theater’s platform and I will add some damage to the rest of the walls too.
For the theater in itself: Well… Yes I realized a bit too late that it would have been more logical to put it in the side of a hill but at this point I already built it and I admit that I felt too lazy to erase it and placing it somewhere else. If that is a big problem, I will displace it. Let me know what you guys think.

2 Likes

Some questions around the ditches i made for the fort. Seeing ur planning to have walls connect to the fort in an added outer bailey like thing. Is there still need for these ditches? Or is there a point to have walls going all the way up to the forts walls in the first place seeing the terrain?

addition.


Is it needed to have this bit of wall (red highligth) be this thick/big? personally dont feel like it needs to be as big or maybe even nonexsisten seeing the terrain at that point

3 Likes

You are right, those walls are not necessary, I will erase them. As for the ditches, they would look out of place now that the front of the fort is part of a bailey protected by an outer wall almost as thick of the forts wall itself.

Sorry to destroy your work Luc :rofl:

Btw @MrBanana I decided to move the theater in a slope north of the ruins. Will update as soon as possible.

1 Like

I have made two concepts.
The first one is very simple, there is almost nothing to see, the walls just disappear in the hill.

The second one has the wall still visible under the grass and has some rubble to show occasional landslides. The ground has been slightly lowered to make that effect.

I would personally choose the second concept but let me know what you think.

1 Like

Okay so after an afternoon here is the update:

I changed the location of the Theater to be more logical

I have removed the walls where the cliff was steep enough:

Finally the project now looks like this:


Do not mind the second theater in the lower left corner of the last picture, it is not part of the planning.

4 Likes

The second one is definitely better, good job

On the theatre - wouldn’t they use the river bank to do this?

Would seem to make more sense

4 Likes

Near the docks ? Hmm… I did not want to have it too close to the river as it was subject to floods and I wanted to avoid putting any important building near the docks to better separate the wealthy town center from the workers districts.

Plus I moved it once already! ^^

1 Like

The location Forn suggested is pretty high up the bank, so floodings would not be a problem up there. Also, classical theaters were often located in order to have a nice view in the background. So that spot should work perfectly in that sense.

I have another point to make. Now that you moved the theater, the old location still has that huge retaining wall. Is that really necessary? I mean, you could split it into two much shorter levels, or even more. Looks very unnatural atm.

3 Likes

Definitely agree with Forn here, I’d even put it facing the river and then have a flat stage area alongside the river but a few blocks up. No need to have a wall behind the stage imo. Basically a mix of these two pics.

image image

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I will change the location of the theater but is it really right to put the stage next to the river like that? What about the centuries of floods? I said that I would not do any quay because the floods would have erased it so it bothers me to make the theater that close to the river.

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The required edits have been made and the project is now approved. Good luck!

4 Likes

I am starting to open some houses for those who want to help me. There is a guide on how to do them at warp Casthenid.

1 Like

411-1240 TA : Architectural development/beautification period. Palaces were expanded and grew in power in this period; older city centres were embellished and new cities were expanded with grid format. Architecture skill was most likely still top notch due to Minas Tirith probably gaining its black wall around this time from excess material while carving Orthanc several hundred years prior. The Egyptian style develops into something more Cretan, Greek/Roman elements creeping in with the assimilation of new peoples into the empire. Etruscan architecture enters the fold with the assimilation of Andrast and Blackroot

What about marble columns to better show the embellishment period ? Would it be heresy to add marble columns on the propylon ?
The old doric columns of the Second Age and early Third Age would still be big slabs.

5 Likes

We have them in Annúminas so I don’t see why not.

2 Likes

So it’s okay for the propylon too ?

1 Like

If it looks good, sure!

3 Likes