Westfold


#41

All I’m doing is trying to prevent a strange looking, potentially unrealistic style of house from “spreading” to other projects and making the problem bigger. If we don’t uphold realism and critique our builds then we’ll just end up like MCME with a whole map in need of a revamp. Saying that we can’t alter a build style on the basis that four projects have already closed is ludicrous.

On your point that you don’t know what else to do with buildings - simply look around a bit; there are plenty of concepts showing other Rohan styles that don’t depend on the tudor both on the server and forums. And I’m not totally against its use; Kemce made a really nice concept using it for his burh. I have a problem when it’s used exclusively on almost every wall in a homestead.


#42

I’m arguing/questioning why it is now a problem. Weeks after the apps with the style were done and you even liking them.
And skimming over the Rohan inspiration thread. No there are not “a plenty of concepts”, that I would deem really different or I personally would not know how to make. We got a lot of different textures yes, but not really that much fitting the concepts with the few rules that were established for Rohan, mainly to differentiate it from the Beorning styles. Also a lot of the other concepts are for different style regions. Again, please do show me and the other builders of homesteads, for that matter, an in your eyes nice, realistic, fitting and varied style, so we can redo the section.


#43

We’ve spoken in game a lot and I think we’ve agreed that the houses that I initially had a problem with could do with some fixing. Of course this is ultimately up to Ben and it would be useful if he could weigh in on this. The changes don’t have to mean changing everything to a different material but instead just means that we add details to the walls/buildings that are exclusively mud tudor. This has been and can be easily achieved with beams, different gable materials, small structures, hedges and the thin beams against the walls.

Good use of tudor


(upload://xdNiLe2joNRo9FqcFy0PRzBNhqs.jpg)

Bad use of tudor


Rohan is meant to be poor and somewhat simple and so we don’t want too much detail but i feel like people are sometimes taking that too far; it works with a lot of blocks like staves, stucco and plaster but for tudor it just ends up looking like a boxy mess.


#44

How far is village 5 from village 6? could it possibly have a blacksmith? Thinking about applying for it and doing a layout.


#45

Some homesteads have a blacksmith so yes, a village should have one. There’s a tasks/services list in the OP


#46

images
snowy made an oven on his homestead…i think we could use more of these


#47

This has been mentioned but i cannot find the info: Where are all these bricks coming from found throughout the homesteads and villages? They are baking them, i understand, but I dont see evidence of it. Would it be in a certain area and then exported or would there be many areas throughout? I ask because I would be willing to make a few areas if pointed in the right direction.


#48

Since I think most of the currently used bricks are mudbricks, I don’t think there would be any sites around other than at current construction sites which I still encourage people to try, look (quite) a few posts up about construction inspiration. This is somewhat the process for mudbrick productions although slightly more advanced maybe, sawn/board molds, straw instead of palms ect.

Video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D59v74k5flU

The stone is mainly cobble outside of Helm’s Deep and there will be at least one clay pit around WFBurh, could add other pits and kilns where clay materials are used though or in general for pottery. Maybe someone could look up material gathering for plaster, so we can add that around the plaster style area too?


#49

wfv6 uses a lot of mudbrick instead of cobble, for example.


I found this video that i think could be a realistic method to use


#50

Just keep in mind for those using mudbrick that this will need to be replaced in 1.12 with actual mudbricks monster made for that. In other words don’t count on the red color. Those current ‘mudbricks’ are really red sandstone.


#51

Going to bump this again, I feel like it should almost be mandatory to use as inspiration for when applicants are making their layouts. Couldn’t recommend it more honestly.

http://www.aedificium.org/Maps/LocalMaps.html


#52

#53

READ AND REMEMBER

"No Anglo-Saxon houses survive! But traces like postholes in the ground show their size and shape. There’s evidence for wooden floors, with a cavity underneath, possibly for storage.

Walls were built either with upright planks slotted together, or by ‘wattle and daub’. Some homes may have had windows, but there was no glass. There was a central hearth for warmth and cooking, but chimneys did not appear until later medieval times. The smoke simply seeped out through the thatch, or through a louver.

There may have been an ‘upstairs’ in these houses, possibly a floor at each end reached by a ladder. Beds were wooden-framed. they probably consisted of a cloth bag stuffed with wool, perhaps, with blankets or fleeces on top. There may have been very little furniture: perhaps a trestle-table, a pair of benches, a chest, baskets, and some shelves. Cabinets and drawers did not exist. The thatched roof would be smoky and soot-blackened on the inside, ideal for curing meat.

Outside, there might be a number of smaller buildings associated with the houses: a midden or loo, sheds for tools, storage food and livestock. Evidence survives for many buildings with sunken earth floors: debate continues about their use. Some of the animals may have been brought indoors during the winter. Water had to be brought daily in buckets from the nearest stream or well. After dark, candles or the fire gave the family’s only light."


#54

Have discussed this with Chevy, and thought it important to bring it up.

I have already discussed the white style beforehand in this thread, and while this has been done in Grimslade (looks great by the way), it hasn’t really been approached in other villages close to the mountains in the Westfold, which is a shame. We should aim to have a sense of subtle non-homogenization in Rohan (a technique which has been used in the Shire beforehand), and the best way to do so is in the materials used in the construction of the houses.

Lime pits would have been something that people would have used, in both the tanning process and in the construction of daub and wattle housing. I understand not everyone is partial to the white style, but it is important that we should maintain a sense of realism in the locations we create. Thus, having white houses in village 2 making up a sizable amount of the buildings in the town should be something to strive for. We have, and will have, plenty more wooden villages throughout Rohan, complete with Mud Tudor etc., and while that is the classical movie style, I think it is important that we deviate from the movies in places where it makes sense.

Sorry to bring this up now, just thought it might be important to remember. This would also go for Helmham, which would most likely have their own lime-pit, or share one, with village2. Having a lime-pit would also allow one to have a tanner’s in a location which makes sense as well.

This does not entirely rule out the use of mud tudor in a village; the poorer would still have houses of stave planks/mud tudor. All mud tudor is is non-strengthened daub wall, and in essence is less effective at blocking out the elements. Whitewashing would have been a commodity people would have wanted to have.


#55

Something I’ve noticed around the Westfold. All the villages and homesteads have their own blocks for dirt paths, and at the moment it looks kinda disjointed. At some point we’ll need to do a better job of blending.


#56

Fair point. My basic idea for the Westfold is to get all the individual locations done first, then a final project (hopefully led by Ben and another person) which would do the farms, roads, and any other extra details to make the whole region feel ‘alive’ and connected.


#57

/atlan mode activated
Did some research on medieval/feudal markets, primarily in England and I think there needs to be some adjustments made to the markets in the Westfold so far.

“Initially, market towns most often grew up close to fortified places, such as castles or monasteries, not only to enjoy their protection, but also because large manorial households and monasteries generated demand for goods and services. Historians term these very early market towns “prescriptive market towns” in that they may not have enjoyed any official sanction such as a charter (grant of authority or rights), but were accorded market town status through custom and practice if they had been in existence prior to 1199. From a very early stage, kings and administrators understood that a successful market town attracted people, generated revenue and would pay for the town’s defenses. From around the 12th century, English and European kings began granting charters to villages allowing them to create a market on specific days.”

“Additionally, markets were located where transport was easiest, such as at a crossroads or close to a river; [ford], for example, Cowbridge in the Vale of Glamorgan.”

“Braudel and Reynold have made a systematic study of European market towns between the 13th and 15th century. Their investigation shows that in regional districts markets were held once or twice a week while daily markets were common in larger cities. Over time, permanent shops began opening daily and gradually supplanted the periodic markets, while peddlers or itinerant sellers continued to fill in any gaps in distribution. The physical market was characterised by transactional exchange and bartering systems were commonplace. Shops had higher overhead costs, but were able to offer regular trading hours and a relationship with customers and may have offered added value services, such as credit terms to reliable customers.”

“At the time of the Norman conquest, the majority of the population made their living through agriculture and livestock farming. Most lived on their farms, situated outside towns, and the town itself supported a relatively small population of permanent residents. Farmers and their families brought their surplus produce to informal markets held on the grounds of their church after worship.”

So basically, it talks about markets only really being prevalent within fortified and safe areas, and places that received a status of being a market town, usually through a charter or ‘right’ to host a market. These markets would then exist in places that make sense, like close to a trade route or where transport was easy and profitable. Keep in mind people who were able to run stalls were certainly not your common villager/peasant for multiple obvious reasons, mainly being costs/taxes/permission/social statues etc but instead merchants, traders or other richer people. The common villager would instead sell their produce in the village square either on the ground or walking around with a basket or whatever, they would NOT be able to afford a stall let alone have the time to run one.

I think It’d be best to restrict having markets to only large/fortified areas in the Westfold and remove the market stalls in all the other villages. Instead you can have little baskets/sacks or some shit in the village squares, but it’s fine to have a large portion of them to be mainly empty since that’s what they looked like anyway and be used for festivities/events/gatherings etc. Ironically Grimslade doesn’t have a market at all whilst being slightly fortified, it probably wouldn’t have a large market anyway but one or two stalls would be realistic.

Markets also weren’t held everyday of the week either, but on certain days of the week depending on what time of year it is. Fairs were also something that would be neat to add in some larger towns.


#58

They probably didnt have miles of baked bricks around fields, either. And what about large breweries?


#59

The bricks thing is a fair point. We can replace them with drystone quite easily unless @Benzathoth has a good reason for using it.


#60

Whee’s point was that he doesn’t believe there would be enough stone in the plains for cobble. There would be less stones available the further away from the mountains (hope i have this correct).