Westfold


#36

Can you pinpoint what exactly you dislike? The material choice, mud, or the whole timber-framing thing? I guess I’m sort of the one who brought up the whole style, I saw the mud tudor in Ben’s earlier concepts and still in the material list in the rohanguide and in Ben’s outline, it was okay for the deeping valley to have some tudor. I chose the mud tudor in particular, because I felt it looked even simpler/older than the standard white tudor which has a more medieval feel to them in my eyes, look at Bree.
If it’s about the timber-framing, this style was created when the mud tudor did not connect yet and I think, the timber-framing gives a lot more opportunities to make each house a little more unique than just having Bree-styled vertical posts, like a lot of the pictures below show. Remember those were also incorporated in some houses in one form or the other. There is also a bit of variation with the staves block as main housing material around, and since the rohan style in that area was never meant to use the log walls because it should feel different to the Beorning styles, there is really little other materials/block I can see fit.
In regards to the colour, I think, with the right materials and ratio, this colour could happen. If you say the geography is not right for it, I’m sorta open to suggestions. I’m saying “sorta” at this point, since most of these projects have their threads closed for over a week now, so the apps are closer to 2-3 weeks old already.

Examples of the colour

http://blog.martinbelan.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/Colonial_Jamestown_20131022_0003.jpg
I know this is sort of the wrong country and maybe time, but the material composition could be right in the area too.

https://i.redditmedia.com/dGABQlGZBtongX6JPPBYszPB1xU3FWZrUMY7-_vxovk.jpg?w=1024&s=ebe97b3e2d3dda23560f1359714c34ca

http://farm5.staticflickr.com/4116/4788962653_abcbc7dd78.jpg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4d/Panorama_Wohnstallhaus.jpg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c3/Geismar_Mittelalterdorf.jpg


#37

I think its ok in places but when you use it on every building and covering the entire facade of a house, the amount of boxes/squares gets overpowering and looks weird. As I said, if was actually based off reality then it’d be fine, but as of yet, no one has provided any historical recreation photos or artworks that resemble them. Your links look great but they are much simpler than the in-game houses you’ve built. They could easily be achieved with the thin beams and stucco/plaster blocks. If we altered the style to something like them, then not only would it look better (imo at least), but it would also be more realistic. Keep some of the tudor, maybe on the gables of houses but try to avoid covering every single wall of every house with it.


#38

We do not have a frameless texture of the mud-tudor though. And when we change these houses to white plaster, the area where that is used will become quite big and kinda repetitive in my eyes.

This is what Ben has in mind regarding different style regions in the Westfold

WFH9 with 1.12 connected tudor


Is this better in your eyes?


#39

there is a brown plaster/stucco block (im not saying to make them white) and you can incorporate wood into them as well. and yes that styles plan is fine but I am querying the use of the brown tudor block which is being used in every single zone atm. with connected textures looks a bit better but doesn’t change the fact that there’s no references for anything similar (that we’ve found yet).


#40
Summary

http://www.wikingowie.bplaced.net/2011/05T/11d.jpg

https://img00.deviantart.net/0d62/i/2012/050/1/1/torgelov_13_08_2011_gallery_01t_photo_06_by_wikingowie-d4q8rz9.jpg

https://farm4.static.flickr.com/3094/13039484183_836c6b4b2c_b.jpg
all Torgelow, Germany

http://www.coppiceagroforestry.com/uploads/6/0/3/2/6032309/2561512.jpg?407
somewhere in Bulgaria

http://theshelterblog.com/lloydsblog/IMG_0392-lo-res.jpg

http://theshelterblog.com/lloydsblog/IMG_0347-lo-res.jpg
both Frankfurt, Germany

Honestly, I would appreciate if you make some concepts then, to show some variety we can use. And do you plan to reopen like 4 already done and approved homesteads now?

Also can’t say I’m a fan of either of the blocks you mentioned, the I left the worn brown plaster out of this, because of two reasons, it is used in the WFV6 area and it has bricks in it. And even if one texture was fitting, we would have the same problem of one texture for all of them.

Summary




#41

All I’m doing is trying to prevent a strange looking, potentially unrealistic style of house from “spreading” to other projects and making the problem bigger. If we don’t uphold realism and critique our builds then we’ll just end up like MCME with a whole map in need of a revamp. Saying that we can’t alter a build style on the basis that four projects have already closed is ludicrous.

On your point that you don’t know what else to do with buildings - simply look around a bit; there are plenty of concepts showing other Rohan styles that don’t depend on the tudor both on the server and forums. And I’m not totally against its use; Kemce made a really nice concept using it for his burh. I have a problem when it’s used exclusively on almost every wall in a homestead.


#42

I’m arguing/questioning why it is now a problem. Weeks after the apps with the style were done and you even liking them.
And skimming over the Rohan inspiration thread. No there are not “a plenty of concepts”, that I would deem really different or I personally would not know how to make. We got a lot of different textures yes, but not really that much fitting the concepts with the few rules that were established for Rohan, mainly to differentiate it from the Beorning styles. Also a lot of the other concepts are for different style regions. Again, please do show me and the other builders of homesteads, for that matter, an in your eyes nice, realistic, fitting and varied style, so we can redo the section.


#43

We’ve spoken in game a lot and I think we’ve agreed that the houses that I initially had a problem with could do with some fixing. Of course this is ultimately up to Ben and it would be useful if he could weigh in on this. The changes don’t have to mean changing everything to a different material but instead just means that we add details to the walls/buildings that are exclusively mud tudor. This has been and can be easily achieved with beams, different gable materials, small structures, hedges and the thin beams against the walls.

Good use of tudor


(upload://xdNiLe2joNRo9FqcFy0PRzBNhqs.jpg)

Bad use of tudor


Rohan is meant to be poor and somewhat simple and so we don’t want too much detail but i feel like people are sometimes taking that too far; it works with a lot of blocks like staves, stucco and plaster but for tudor it just ends up looking like a boxy mess.


#44

How far is village 5 from village 6? could it possibly have a blacksmith? Thinking about applying for it and doing a layout.


#45

Some homesteads have a blacksmith so yes, a village should have one. There’s a tasks/services list in the OP


#46

images
snowy made an oven on his homestead…i think we could use more of these


#47

This has been mentioned but i cannot find the info: Where are all these bricks coming from found throughout the homesteads and villages? They are baking them, i understand, but I dont see evidence of it. Would it be in a certain area and then exported or would there be many areas throughout? I ask because I would be willing to make a few areas if pointed in the right direction.


#48

Since I think most of the currently used bricks are mudbricks, I don’t think there would be any sites around other than at current construction sites which I still encourage people to try, look (quite) a few posts up about construction inspiration. This is somewhat the process for mudbrick productions although slightly more advanced maybe, sawn/board molds, straw instead of palms ect.

Video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D59v74k5flU

The stone is mainly cobble outside of Helm’s Deep and there will be at least one clay pit around WFBurh, could add other pits and kilns where clay materials are used though or in general for pottery. Maybe someone could look up material gathering for plaster, so we can add that around the plaster style area too?


#49

wfv6 uses a lot of mudbrick instead of cobble, for example.


I found this video that i think could be a realistic method to use


#50

Just keep in mind for those using mudbrick that this will need to be replaced in 1.12 with actual mudbricks monster made for that. In other words don’t count on the red color. Those current ‘mudbricks’ are really red sandstone.


#51

Going to bump this again, I feel like it should almost be mandatory to use as inspiration for when applicants are making their layouts. Couldn’t recommend it more honestly.

http://www.aedificium.org/Maps/LocalMaps.html


#52

#53

READ AND REMEMBER

"No Anglo-Saxon houses survive! But traces like postholes in the ground show their size and shape. There’s evidence for wooden floors, with a cavity underneath, possibly for storage.

Walls were built either with upright planks slotted together, or by ‘wattle and daub’. Some homes may have had windows, but there was no glass. There was a central hearth for warmth and cooking, but chimneys did not appear until later medieval times. The smoke simply seeped out through the thatch, or through a louver.

There may have been an ‘upstairs’ in these houses, possibly a floor at each end reached by a ladder. Beds were wooden-framed. they probably consisted of a cloth bag stuffed with wool, perhaps, with blankets or fleeces on top. There may have been very little furniture: perhaps a trestle-table, a pair of benches, a chest, baskets, and some shelves. Cabinets and drawers did not exist. The thatched roof would be smoky and soot-blackened on the inside, ideal for curing meat.

Outside, there might be a number of smaller buildings associated with the houses: a midden or loo, sheds for tools, storage food and livestock. Evidence survives for many buildings with sunken earth floors: debate continues about their use. Some of the animals may have been brought indoors during the winter. Water had to be brought daily in buckets from the nearest stream or well. After dark, candles or the fire gave the family’s only light."


#54

Have discussed this with Chevy, and thought it important to bring it up.

I have already discussed the white style beforehand in this thread, and while this has been done in Grimslade (looks great by the way), it hasn’t really been approached in other villages close to the mountains in the Westfold, which is a shame. We should aim to have a sense of subtle non-homogenization in Rohan (a technique which has been used in the Shire beforehand), and the best way to do so is in the materials used in the construction of the houses.

Lime pits would have been something that people would have used, in both the tanning process and in the construction of daub and wattle housing. I understand not everyone is partial to the white style, but it is important that we should maintain a sense of realism in the locations we create. Thus, having white houses in village 2 making up a sizable amount of the buildings in the town should be something to strive for. We have, and will have, plenty more wooden villages throughout Rohan, complete with Mud Tudor etc., and while that is the classical movie style, I think it is important that we deviate from the movies in places where it makes sense.

Sorry to bring this up now, just thought it might be important to remember. This would also go for Helmham, which would most likely have their own lime-pit, or share one, with village2. Having a lime-pit would also allow one to have a tanner’s in a location which makes sense as well.

This does not entirely rule out the use of mud tudor in a village; the poorer would still have houses of stave planks/mud tudor. All mud tudor is is non-strengthened daub wall, and in essence is less effective at blocking out the elements. Whitewashing would have been a commodity people would have wanted to have.


#55

Something I’ve noticed around the Westfold. All the villages and homesteads have their own blocks for dirt paths, and at the moment it looks kinda disjointed. At some point we’ll need to do a better job of blending.