MCME Drama Thread


#1

I have left due to my opinion about the recent memes and affairs about the mcme server. I found them quite foul, tbh ever since I switched from MCME to Arda I had a doubt about my preference for the realism, lore accuracy and modpack to the community of MCME. Not that this community was bad, it’s just that I disgust the intolerant way it deals with autists and other people it doesn’t like. I have had great times building Lindon, and leading MineC and TH though, it was quite a tough decision.
Good bye and farewell


Thorin's Halls
#2

I thought I’d move this to a new topic as there are issues here that need to be addressed in the open. I’m sure this post will be long but there’s a lot to deal with here. I will be addressing the least PR-friendly aspects of this server, and will explain and justify their existence to people who have been on the fringes of these events. Being fully transparent is important to me.


MCME

For those who don’t know, over the past few days things have flared up again between AC and MCME. A video was made by @Eaglz24 which parodied the ‘Head Designer’ of MCME, Finrod_Amandil, as well as several other members of the MCME community. I was one of the people who contributed to the content of this video, and I will try to explain why I’ve gone down this path - given my previous statements about the importance of tolerating MCME and reducing drama, it’s pretty clear that I’ve changed my position.

  • The facade of ‘tolerance’

To anyone involved in either community, it is very clear that AC and MCME are rivals. We’re both attempting to do the same thing - build Middle-earth in Minecraft - and AC split off from MCME as we believe (and continue to believe) that there is a much better way of acheiving this goal. I am not ashamed of the belief that these are not two ‘different visions’ of Middle-earth, but that one recreation is quite obviously better than the other. I shouldn’t have to explain why this is to anyone with a functioning pair of eyes. I cannot be impartial here, and neither can anyone who has thrown in their lot with either server.

As a result, there is an inevitable rivalry - and it is not a friendly rivalry. The history between the two servers, as well as their aims, makes reconciliation essentially impossible. But this rivalry alone does not explain why my patience has finally cracked.

  • My treatment

Soon after this video was released, I got into a PM conversation with Finrod. I will admit that I was deeply angry when I wrote this PM, and so I did not choose my words carefully, but I hope its content will partly explain this anger:

Anger is not a positive emotion. It is not a pretty one. It is not, perhaps, an emotion that some people feel should motivate me. But I cannot ignore the way in which I was treated, and I cannot ignore the way AC is viewed on MCME - words like ‘parasite’, ‘traitor’ and ‘collective enemy’ were used not long ago towards us. If that’s the way we’re seen, why pretend otherwise? My conviction that what we are doing is something truly remarkable means that I am fiercely defensive of it.

As an addendum to that screenshot, Finrod’s decision to throw his lot in with a group of people who discarded him at a moment’s notice last summer (as can be seen in this thread) has left me with no respect for him whatsoever.

  • The memes

So, I came to a position where I knew there was no chance of reconciliation between the two servers, and had been roundly insulted by people who still hold staff positions on MCME. As a result, I had no reason not to enjoy myself by collaborating with a group of disaffected MCME members in creating memes that parodied MCME and members of its community. Humour is the most subjective thing in the world but personally I found a lot of stuff that was created by the ‘m3m3team’ hilarious - as do some current staff members on MCME.

It might be argued that many of these memes were personal in nature, and therefore crossed some kind of ‘line’. Certainly they broke MCME’s rules on the matter (rules which their admins are not above breaking when it suits them - one of the reasons I have been banned on MCME is ‘Sharing / publishing parts of a confidential conversation with an Admin’ which is exactly what Q did when he spied on Finrod and I’s conversation on the forums last summer and kickstarted that whole drama). However, nobody is above mockery, parody and critcism - even if it ‘offends’ them or hurts their feelings. Finrod literally has an entire server backing him up - I’m sure he’ll survive a few maymays.

Anyone who has spent any time in this community knows that we mock each other all the time for fun. This brings me to the next issue.


“Intolerance”

Though I’m not sure which cases you’re referring to here, Ruben, I’m going to pick the two most pertinent examples - those of hoppingharry and Atlantispy. These are both players who have some form of autism IRL, and were either banned or left the server.

Our server’s purpose is to build. As a result, AC is set up to reward those who contribute the most, and to discourage those who do not contribute or who are not team players. Without writing out an essay to explain why, the former applied to Atlantispy (in the second half of his time on the server), and the latter applied to hoppingharry.

As a result, both of these individuals did not get on well with the community at large, and when they were mocked (like many other members of the server who are perfectly happy with the community) they left. To explain the difference here, let me list some of the most prominent members of the community and the things that they are regularly mocked for:

As you can see, these are all pretty personal attacks and could be considered ‘offensive’ to people with thin skin. @Chewiezhul has autism, and he always got on very well with the community as he contributed what he could. We have never mocked people for having a mental condition, but have mocked certain people with that mental condition for other reasons. There is a key difference there.


In conclusion, I am not claiming that either I or AC’s community are perfect. We have always run things in a somewhat dysfunctional manner and have never been above making ‘edgy’ memes or jokes. Sometimes feelings have been hurt as a result. I believe, however, that the alternative to this state of affairs - namely, censorship and strict rules - would stifle creativity and vital criticism, and would force people to hide their genuine feelings behind a veil of ‘family-friendly’ communication.

I think that the results of that free and open system speak for themselves in our builds. Thanks for reading.


#3

I have also autism but it hasnt really bothered me so far in this community, I appreciate that.


#4

Tbh Fornad would be the most autistic person on the server.


#5


#6

I have Asperger’s Syndrome and have Dysgraphia, as well as a stutter after talking for a long period of time. I’ve had to take many extra speech and socializing programs and been through at least two therapy programs when I was younger.

Let me make it clear: I don’t need anyone offended on my behalf. I understand the nature of how the jokes go and how I can find myself in a situation where I’ll be mocked. And most of the time, it’s the fact that I’m an American and a southerner, and they don’t go for the elephant in the room half as much as I do. I can’t count on my hands the many times as I’ve picked on King for being a cripple, but at the end of the day, King is bae. He wouldn’t need someone with a leg complaining about bullying when he himself might not even take it seriously. As if getting offended about jokes makes you a vicarious partaker in that person’s struggle.

Yet, if a new person got on the server and found out he’s a cripple or I’m high functioning, then proceeded to mock us for it before ever building a block… that person would be cucked immediately. After a few laughs, however. Because the real joke is when someone honestly believes that mockery will have that much of a real impact on us.


#7

Hey Fornad, hello everyone on AC. I don’t know whether my reply is appreciated here, given I seem to have been banned from your Discord lately. Still I would like to be honest once, something that I dare say I have been to everyone, no matter who it was, or what he did.

I have always appreciated talking with Fornad, I really did. I was profoundly honest, and more open than I was to many other people. By now I have to admit that I have been naïve, obviously, given I have been successfully played by Fornad and Eag, as either of them has admitted himself. I fear by this time, and his post summing it all up, Fornad has become a prime example for double standards and contradicting himself:

  • Fornad despises MCME for members of it calling him a traitor, while at the same time betraying me, for prolonged periods of times.
  • Fornad despises MCME for that he has been called many bad things, while at the same time contributing or supporting the creation of comics and videos that make me look bad, and contain about the same messages, just in a more subtle form than if it was written down. This form may make more people laugh about it, but the message is there, and those who it concerns it hits, and that not in a funny way.
  • Fornad says above that he despises me for holding on to a group of members that discarded me, while stating that I can very well “survive a few maymays”, given I literally have an entire server backing me up.
  • Fornad complains about having been banned for unjustified reasons, while at the same time, although I have no proof that it was his deed, but it seems likely to me, he banned me from your Discord, and not loosing a single syllable about why that was.
  • And of course, Fornad blaming us for having double standards, while as I see it, not being straight with his standards as well.

I was honest to you, Fornad, all the time, whenever we talked, since the foundation until this day. Even when you admitted that you no longer care about the well-being of MCME I remained honest with you, and I never ever called you names, even though I was angry as well about what has been thrown towards MCME.

And then regarding that he was banned due to publishing pm’s, while q did it himself before: Even though many of you most likely see the MCME rulework as too rigorous I can say that the Enforcers and I put effort into not punishing bad actions but bad intentions. Often this is hard to judge, I spent a long time myself trying to figure out what people in question were thinking, but in the case of Fornad sharing a message, in which I literally beg him not to share it, it is fairly clear that his intentions were malevolent.

You are always generalizing, It’s always all members of MCME that insulted you. Okay, many of MCME do the same. But whenever members from within AC caused another drama on MCME, it was about specific people for me, not about AC as a whole. Until now. When the leader treats me like this I am bound to believe that his entourage follows similar principles.

And last of all. On these very rare occasions that I write something on an AC platform, I am not posting deconstructive memes, and am not desperately trying to get people into a fight, I am contributing my point of view, and my opinion. You may trust me that I am honest, but I fear trust these days is something only gullible people still believe in.

~ Finrod


#8


#9

Respectable response. I still can’t help but meme around a bit, though. Glad you can give some input :slight_smile:


#11

Not a single word about me…

So why am I banned?


#12

I dare say I clarified that well enough in your ‘Resignation’ thread over on MCME. Mainly because you were banned before and I used up DAYS of mine to get you out of the mess you were at that time. I fought for you and now you return as Eag’s sidekick, trying to unsettle as much of MCME as possible. But I don’t think this thread is meant to be about your case, as written, if you have questions direct yourself towards an Enforcer.


#13

Finrod, the last time I got on MCME I had a bunch of people saying stuff like, “Oh, look, it’s an ArdaCraft member. Here to advertise?” When I had never advertised. And when I did respond back, saying, “I mean, I need a break from Mithlond, so I’m on here for a bit.” I would be approached to show caution mentioning my other projects. You don’t need memes to talk garbage about other players. Memes just take the thoughts that are there and make them visually appealing in a way that even the most staunch opposition to your views can have a chuckle at.


#14

In what way did I betray you exactly? Did I ever owe you any loyalty? You run a server filled with people who hate me and what I do.

Yes, I explained why I did this in the post. I don’t like your server because of the attitude that was shown towards me. Therefore I had nothing to lose by creating memes mocking it. Eye for an eye. I literally said AC “have never been above making ‘edgy’ memes or jokes”. Did you read what I wrote?

Are you worried that our memes are going to lose you your rank?

You’re not banned lad

Also I didn’t complain about being banned for unjustified reasons, I did break your rules and I enjoyed doing it.

You and the Enforcers literally have no power over Q. In fact he demoted you as soon as he saw you were collaborating with the ‘enemy’. Seems like a bad intention to me when you clearly have no trust in your own Head Designer.


#15

I did break your rules and I enjoyed doing it.

Alright, a clear statement I can live with. I have said what I wanted to and I’ll stand to it. Settles it for me, Finrod out.


#16

#19


#22

Normally I am not really involved in the affairs besides building on the server. But in this case I like to say a few things while this is a topic.

I joined ArdaCraft without knowing about MC Middle Earth, so I personally don’t know much about the relation and history between the two servers.

But I would like to say something about the “Intolerance” and the atmosphere on the server. At this moment I have been a member of ArdaCraft for about 2 years, in this time I have seen a lot happen on the server.
To be honest if you would join this server without knowing anything about it, we could seem rude, blunt, intolerant, etc. If a new player was not used to this, it could be difficult to join the community.
But I think (and really hope) that people act this way just because they find it fun to do and a lot of people are involved, not just to hurt other people. It is also different when almost everybody mocks each other, instead of only specific people being targeted, just like Fornad said.

There were a number of times people said things on the server that I think where outrageous. But I did not say anything about it. I could have done that, but I feel this is not the place and time to start discussions on these topics. Instead I was just building some elven houses.:grin:
I think even if you don’t like the atmosphere on the server it’s better to stay and initiate small changes by not participating in the conversations that you don’t like and acting the way you think is better, instead of leaving the server(and missing out on the fantastic building) or forcefully trying to change how people act.

Of course we could forcefully change the atmosphere on the server. But that would require mods who are censoring, deleting and managing conversations. I personally think that it would not be to the benefit of the server. The appearance of the server would change but not the people behind it. I would rather see people having their own limit of what is acceptable and what is not.

Anyway, that is my ramble on this topic. :roll_eyes:


#23

I almost forgot this, some important reference material for my post and this topic:


#24

We all care about each other here on the server whether you are an active member or not, if you are a part of the community you are treated as such. As Fornad said, we mock the hell out of each other all the time but at the end of the day its all in good fun. If someone were to have a problem we can talk it out as individuals rather than dragging a ‘staff’ member into mitigate the situation. I’ve been the target of some criticism in the past, and I’ve almost caused one member to leave our community through targeted criticism in the past. But you know what? Everyone got over it and moved on. We’ve had members in the past that wouldn’t get over things and move on, guess where they are now? Banned.

Both servers have a different way of going about things, and we’re never going to get along because each server believes it is doing the right thing. MCME with its authoritarian oversight and ‘disney-fication’ of Tolkien and ArdaCraft with its high build standards and lazed oversight. Both are never going to get along because at their core they want very different things to happen to allow their community to stay. I’m a bit biased in my views because of past treatments on MCME, so I hold ArdaCraft in a higher regard because they/we honestly don’t give a damn in regards to who you are or what you want to do; just as long as you aren’t a jerk while doing it and you can build well.


#25

i just wish the two servers could get over their differences and fights in the past and leave them there rather than keeping these arguments alive.

personally at different points i have built on both servers, i have had a great experience on each on its own and i wouldnt be the builder i am today without being on both.

i learned alot building on mcme and without it i would never have gotten into lotr and learned to build well enought to be accepted onto ardacraft.

it just seems a shame to me that rather than working our best to compete in a constructive way that we have to hurl insults at each other.

at its root this whole issue began with us having different ideals in how the world of middle earth should be built and about the levels of detail and sources of inspiration we use, that itself isnt bad and so im just going to hope that one day, even in years time that the two servers can finally learn to get over past wrongs to either compete in a constructive way or go our separate ways,but either way although I understand its hard both servers need to leave the past where it deserves to be.

  • the past.