Discussion on a 1.15 server

The one thing that needs to be done, for the love of god harness the excitement to get the tree grid done, make some use of the naughty auties!

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I think option A is partially wrong, a timegated one that is. I don’t think we need a converted full map,I’ll agree there. After all, map progress probably shouldn’t be made on an unprotected server. So, sure, lets go with a free build and limit WHAT can be built, but not limit WHEN. Anecdotal here, but if it is time gated to specific dates, there’s no guarantee that any two project leads might be available those days. Would become tiring real quick if a concept or idea was left 50% finished until next week.

We wouldn’t worry too much if a Freebuild concept is griefed. We can have it whitelisted to just builders if security is a bit of a concern.

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As new hopefully builder. I will admit I came here with the intention to help with alot of mordor and gondor keeps, towers and walls. I am excited to help where instructed and progress Rohan along, and also Bree is exciting too. Depending on how restricted the access is on the 1.15 server, it could be disheartening, as if its too late for new applicants to contribute in a big way.

I also want it to be stated I have no problem paying my dues and earning the right to work on the newer projects. Just giving a bit of perspective from a newer applicant, I am sure new people joining seeing that Moria, Gondor, Mordor, and other stuff to the east and south might join expecting to be a part of those projects.

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Technical side:

Creating a new server won’t be hard and can actually be helpful to test out some of the back-end upgrades I have wanted to do for a while now. The server will be a forge only server with NO plugins besides WorldEdit (Thanks Creative for pointing out that worldedit is a forge mod). This means the only difference here between a vanilla server and our server is that this new one has the conquest mod and worldedit. This means that there will be no kind of other help plugins. This also means there will be no permissions besides OP and potentially a whitelist.

My idea would be just to have a flat world. I can run a few test servers with our world converted and we can have separate times for people to go through stuff to find bugs for the converter. There’s no point in making our current map into 1.15.2 at the moment.

Both servers can be running at the same time. I can make it so the server would start and stop at different times but that seems like it would just put people off and may have issues where the time the server is up is not the time someone wants it to be up. I would prefer we just leave it up.

What’s going on with Sponge???

Sponge has made lots of progress over the past year and they have demo’d the use of the SpongeVanilla server within the past month. I think a use able Sponge Forge build will be ready within a few months. One issue people here need to realize is that it won’t be easy to convert all our plugins to the updated API. We’ll probably have to hire someone to help as I don’t have too much experience with the plugin development and dags is busy with other obligations. Even when Sponge does get updated it will take a while to update plugins. It looks like Sponge is also moving straight on to 1.17 so @CreativeRealms if it’s easy to update then we can just skip 1.16 all together.

Why can’t we just update without sponge???

Sponge is an API that lets us use plugins with forge mods. We can’t use spigot or bukkit because those are meant for vanilla and are not compatible with forge mods.

Aren’t there are few other server platforms that are updated and work with spigot/bukkit and forge???

Yes. But our entire plugin stack is meant for Sponge. So most of the things we have on the server for plugins would not work anymore and would require an entire rewrite for new platforms that don’t have much support.

My own thoughts

This situation reminds me of what the server was like when it was first created. The map was not finished yet so we just had a free-build server setup. Albeit that server had plugins and permissions. I do see the benefit in having this kind of freebuild server up. It’s also the situation MCME had when it created it’s new map. For those of you who were there there was the main middle-earth map, a staff only flat world and the plots world. The main server was dead except for the flat and plots world. It’s something they dealt with and overcame. We had lots of concepts and had a small group of people on when the first ArdaCraft server was up. Server progress will be slow but at the moment once current projects are finished it will continue to be slow. Having an apprentice and up (or whatever system we want here) whitelisted flat world that is open all the time is the best option.

What this means is that unless you’re working on the treegrid or developing strict concepts for moria and gondor, you will for all intents and purposes be using 1.12 anyway. It makes no difference.

I agree here. If we have a freebuild it should be for select projects/concepts only. We could maybe let people do some fun concepts of stuff but ideally if there are projects on the main map left to be done people will just use 1.12 to finish them. (I know it will be hard to get others to help, but that is something that might end up happening anyway.) This would also help builders that feel like they are burnt out or are not excited about our current projects. Being able to make concepts is super fun and still counts towards server activity in my opinion.

I think best to just ditch the building on the 1.12 server entirely and move on to 1.15. Even if that means banning guests for a while until we have protections (they can still see the 1.12 server and it’s easy to explain what’s going on to them).

I don’t like the idea of ditching the server all together. Both being up is fine.

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This means that there will be no worldedit, voxelsniper, or any kind of other help plugins.

WorldEdit has a Forge version so you should have no issue using it on said server. Don’t think VS has a mod version though.

It looks like Sponge is also moving straight on to 1.17 so @CreativeRealms if it’s easy to update then we can just skip 1.16 all together.

1.17/1.18 is a bit far down the line and will require a ton of new textures from Monster which will slow things down a bit. We are planning 1.15.2/1.16.5 versions regardless and will figure out versions after that when things are stable.

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I can 100% confirm that World edit has forge support. I can also confirm that there is no voxel sniper for forge. If we do start up the temp server? I would recommend for the moderators to look into forge essentials, if they are not aware of it yet.
https://www.curseforge.com/minecraft/mc-mods/forge-essentials-74735

That’s 1.12.2 only.

oof i should have dubble checked that. Sad its not yet ported, because it has a lot of usefull tools.

Seems like things are looking up a bit. Was afraid we’d have another 1.13 to 1.14 situation where we had to stop development for a year (of course a lot still depends on Forge itself).

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I’ve read through this thread a few times now, and it’s great to see everyone’s thoughts on this topic. There’s a careful balance we have to strike between giving people the ability to work on ArdaCraft stuff in 1.15 whilst not abandoning our work in 1.12. Here is the conclusion I have reached, which is largely in agreement with @Freshmilkymilk:

When 1.15 is available to the general public, we will set up a flatworld server which will be whitelisted to Builders/Landscapers and above (I think Apprentices should focus on reaching Builder by contributing to public projects). It will be open 24/7. However, it won’t be a free-for-all. Builders will initally be limited to the following activities:

  • Concepting for Gondor and Moria - our first two projects when we update the main map - to help get builders used to building in 1.15
  • The tree build (edit: this is being done solely by Whee and Eag)

Meanwhile, projects like Tharbad, the Eastfold, Caras Galadhon, the fisher-folk and West-march can continue on the 1.12 server. It’s an impossible thing to police, but I’d prefer that builders don’t spend all their time on the 1.15 server without contributing to the work on the main map. We’ll still be running build days for example, and we won’t allow people to hang out on the 1.15 server while those are going on.

If we reach a point where we’re running out of projects in 1.12, then at that point @eag_inc can start building Bree on the 1.15 server. But hopefully this is not a bridge we will need to cross.

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After some suggestions, I’ve also decided to open the server to Apprentices!

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